It’s just data

SVG Shiv

Chris Wilson: I want to jam standards support into (this and future versions of) Internet Explorer. If a shiv is the only pragmatic tool I can use to do so, shouldn’t I be using it?

Sjoerd’s revelation can be applied to build on the prior work in this area.  The result is this page which is valid HTML5, displays natively on standards compliant browsers such as Firefox, Safari, and Opera; and will display the same image on existing IE browsers that happen to have the Silverlight plugin installed.

You see, I believe that Microsoft’s strategy is sound.  Stall, stall, stall, and generate demand, demand, demand.

But if the scripts and stylesheets were built using versioned URLs, perhaps the load could be something the W3C could find a way to support.  Perhaps Ian's employer could also kick in.  Once loaded, these resources would never need to be fetched again, or at least not until they are updated or if the client’s browser cache is completely flushed.

Now, in terms of generating demand, here’s a thought.  Wikipedia is a site with a policy that encourages SVG.  What would happen if Silverlight happened to get ubiquitous amongst IE users and performance of displaying inline SVG in wikipedia pages on IE was adequate?


I’m convinced that SVG can be transformed to VML via XSLT. Standards should not rely on plugins (e.g. Silverlight).

Posted by Dean Edwards at

And why are we all of a sudden saying “shiv” instead of "shim"?

Posted by Dean Edwards at


<blockquote>

Mirrors on the ceiling,
The pink champagne on ice
And she said ’we are all just prisoners here, of our own device’
And in the master’s chambers,
They gathered for the feast
The stab it with their <b>steely knives</b>,
But they just can’t kill the beast

</blockquote>

Posted by Shelley at

Sorry, doesn’t look like your comments take any markup.

Posted by Shelley at

I’m with Shelley on this one - it’s a neat trick, and one I suspect I’ll have to use, but I’d rather Microsoft just implement SVG (at least take the XSL and start from their, if they have to).

Posted by Jeff Schiller at

Maybe he does mean shiv.

Posted by Joe at

By sticking to Silverlight only, MS gives first class support to their proprietary specification and we get to play catch-up  providing second class support for the open standard. The shim is a practical solution for each of us as individuals but once we all do it then we help establish a two-tier system. This isn’t the first time things have played out this way. I mean, look at Mono or Wine - they’re not direct analogies but there’s a similar feeling that open implementations are only welcome when they’re not a viable replacement. For all the progress towards open standard support we can clearly see that there’s another strategy at work and that doesn’t end with a level playing field for all participants. It’s business and Microsoft doesn’t want to be disintermediated.

Like I said though, for each of us as individuals the shiv is a viable solution to the problem of getting content to visitors.

Posted by Rob Russell at

Wake me up when Internet Explorer, with any combination of plugins, shims, shivs, opt-ins, opt-outs, <meta> tags or prayers, can render this page (or this page) correctly.

Which is not to say that I don’t admire the cleverness involved in getting IE to render some subset (but exactly which subset?) of SVG using SilverLight.

Posted by Jacques Distler at

My IE8 Predictions

Lots of continued discussion about Internet Explorer and Microsoft’s support of web standards. Sam Ruby continues to finesse his SVG-via-Silverlight solution (improvement: use createElement() and then some XSLT to transform from SVG’s...

Excerpt from Something Witty Goes Here at

Microsoft: Fish, or Cut Bait

Sam Ruby quotes a comment Microsoft’s Chris Wilson made in another weblog post: I want to jam standards support into (this and future versions of) Internet Explorer. If a shiv is the only pragmatic tool I can use to do so, shouldn’t I be using it?...

Excerpt from Bb's RealTech at

Sjoerd Visscher’s revelation

Via Sam Ruby, we are pointed to this in the comments at Intertwingly: Btw, if you want CSS rules to apply to unknown elements in IE, you just have to do document.createElement(elementName). This somehow lets the CSS engine know that elements with...

Excerpt from Closer To The Ideal at

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