Echo Conflicts With Another Project

The fact that another open source project is using the name, would like to keep it as their own and has a pending trademark application on the name seem like compelling reasons to not use Echo. I refactored the existing alternate name proposals and tried to come up with something less chaotic as a process: ProjectNameProcess, ProjectNameProposals.

Old Discussion About The Conflict

OldPoll: Is the name conflict between Echo for this project and the existing Java framework project a dealbreaker?

[WWW]Existing Echo Java framework

[SamRuby] posted a question on the [WWW]other project's mailing list to see if there actually is an issue. The [WWW]reply: 'yes'.

[NeilDunn] Echo is also a BikeTrial company, and a cheeky little dolphin we all know and love. -- That's Ecco, surely? -- Moof

[GrantCarpenter] Tough call for me. The likelihood for confusion seems fairly minimal to me personally, and I do like the name Echo for this project. That said, it does seem like hijacking in some ways.

[Skware] I personally like the name, but would suggest asking the Java Framework guys if it would cause issues, rather than having the Mozilla Firebird vs Firebird Database problem that went on a short while ago. Given that the other Echo project is a framework and this is a something similarly abstract, I think there would be cause for concern over the conflict.

[ShelleyPowers] even if they don't see a conflict, we all know what havoc webloggers have on Google -- if we continue with Echo and Project Echo, this other application will get lost in the folds. Not to mention duplicate Echo java classes, though the paths will differ. It just strikes me that they were there first -- they may say, no it's not a problem, but it's not worth the hassle, and all it means is that another name is picked. Let's not start this project with a conflict that may -- or may not -- blow up later.

[PhilWolff] Content syndication is a retail branding issue, something for millions of ordinary blog users, not a thousand java developers. Will anyone outside of the java engineering community ever confuse an echo "syndicate me" badge, an "echo powered" newsreader, or a "via echo" attribution with a java framework? I think not. A good brand name is:

I hate to bring marketing to a technical forum, but golly. I want 20 million people to use Echo as a synonym for "syndicate" by 2005.

[GrantCarpenter] If the other project doesn't object, my vote would be that it's a non-issue--we call it Echo.

[Skware] Even if the other project objects it would make the google search on Java Echo Client tough. I think this is enough to make it an issue.

[DaveWarnock] I was going to suggest Reverb, but there is already a reverb project on and it is a networking project.

[AdriaanTijsseling] You can always change to "Resonance". Not a real acronym (unless you bend it in funny ways), but the same underlying theme.

[JasonCosper] As long as one acts responsibly reguarding both names - like a link to the other "echo" above the fold on one another's page - everything should be fine.

[Moof] I think it's a bad thing. We aren't being nice to the other guys. If we continue to name it "Echo" then a lot of sites are going to start sporting "Echo Enabled" tags around the place. Many of these will be A-list bloggers, which I suspect will probably get a higher pagerank than a Java framework. There may even be a number of A-list bloggers talking about Java, which would push down the framework in a search for "Echo Java". A link to Echo above the fold of each other's page is not going to do much if either Echo or the Echo project are not on the first page of a Google search for Echo - and I doubt it will be, given the small number of links that will say "Echo Enabled" going to the Echo Website. It's a lovely idea. It's a great name. Someone got there first, and us usurping it may engender a lot of bad feeling. We've been doing this too quickly. I say rename, and can we keep the poll open for at least a week this time?

[BobMonsour] Food for thought on a replacement name for Echo. Two ideas: Ditto and Repro. Alternatively, check out this Thesaurus page for Echo synonyms [WWW]

[JeremyGray] If there is a name collision with another project, even one where they are willing to let the name be re-used, it could create problems with regards to finding simple, sensible domain names, page ranking in Google et al, as indicated by previous people who have commented above. This one is well worth solving while the game is still early. With that (and BobMonsour's link to synonyms for echo) in mind I'd like to pose the following question: echo sure is a simple, catchy name for which lots of nice, clean logos can and have been suggested, but is 'echo' even the right concept for a name? Consider the available definitions: . One could consider other sound-based analogies (e.g. 'amp' which would certainly nicely represent the idea of taking your own voice and amplifying it, gaining power as it is distributed abroad, but that is likely to have even more name collisions than echo :) ) if one were so inclined, but there are probably lots of other concepts floating around that would make for a good match.

[SeanConner] How about Xanadu? Oh wait ... isn't that taken?

[ChristianCrumlish] If not Echo, I'd renominate Reverb and a few others, such as Verbatim, Mimeo, Repro, Telegraph, and Press.

[DannyAyers] 'Amp' probably is a better match meaning-wise, though I do rather like Echo. Is HiFi taken? Or how about Feedback or even Squaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwck!?

[TomasJogin] Let's remember here, folks, that there is probably not a single english word that isn't "taken" to this effect. Verbatim is a brand that makes CD-R's, " lets you print, bind and deliver documents right from your laptop or PC" and don't even get me started on "Press". "collaborates with graphic designers to produce high-quality corporate communications projects", a google search for "movable type communications project" only turn up MT-specific results. Is this a big deal? No, like I said, there is virtually no name that isn't "taken" already to this effect. Don't extrapolate too much from examples; someone searching for "Echo Java API" and finds the "wrong" one will either refine his or her search, or go home and cry. It still isn't a big deal.

[ArveBersvendsen, RefactorOk] We could route around the entire problem by translating the word Echo to another language, where it is similar enough to be recognized just as a weird spelling in English. In several european languages, "Echo" is spelled "Ekko".

[DavidJanes] _Eco_ is the name of a famous Italian author; 'Ecco la' means "look here" in Italian -- very appropriate for this project's domain: let's call it 'EccoLa'

[BruceLoebrich] So far most of the suggestions seem to be English words. How about an acronym? Maybe something like EAS for Editing, Archiving, and Syndication? It's pronounceable and projects an impression of simplicity and ease of use.

[RolandTanglao] I suggest we go back to Pie!

[TimothyAppnel] [WWW]LOKAHI means UNITY and HARMONY in Hawaiian. During the initial search that resulted in Echo I looked up Hawiian language words and came across this one. (Afterall we are doing this work in a wiki which is derived from a Hawaiian word wikiwiki which means quick.) I did a Google search and the only thing remotely close to this effort is the Lokahi project which is sometype of grade school penpal exchange program. All other hits are to Hawaiian culture, canoe clubs and hotels.

[FelixGallo] I am willing to contribute 'gutenblog', which is currently an unused domain name of mine. It's not as simple as 'echo', but it googles much better, is catchy, and is related.

[Jacob Reider] Kuvop (means nothing as far as I know) has a nice clean ring to it .. and .. uh .. I own the domain name and could contribute to the project if there is any interest.

[JoeGermuska] RSS 3.0. Get Dave Winer to admit that he was hasty to [WWW]declare RSS frozen; get everyone else to admit that RSS is already something that has achieved remarkable success and is not so broken that a whole new name is necessary. Put the political arguments to bed and get to work making the spec. ([Stuart Woodward] BTW RSS 3.0 already has been specifed: [WWW]RSS 3.0)

[RichardTallent] Any spelling variations on Echo can still be seen to infringe on their trademark--the law (at least in the US) is written to avoid confusion, not exact duplication in spelling. Suggest we head another direction, don't want a Phoenix/Firebird problem on our hands. I've suggested xark over on ProjectNameProposals (read there for my case). Word-of-mouth is also important, so fewer spelling variations after hearing it pronounced it important.

[DimitrisPanagiotakis, RefactorOk, DeleteOk] How about GLUE? or maybe SYN (as in SYNdicate), Syn means 'plus' in Greek.

[TitoCosa] What about using SIKUS ?? Its a great name!! (A sikus is a musical instrument from South America, its used to play folkroric music, and folk, is open...!!

[JohnBalrow] Sikus sound cool!

[RichardSoderberg] The word "blog" isn't being adopted too quickly in the business world because it's linguistically "odd" -- it doesn't really fit in with business-speak. I'd like to propose that we try to stick with names that business-people over 30 won't flinch at pronouncing; "echo" was good for this, "RSS" is kind of okay, "xark" and "sikus" are both very cool in ASCII, not so cool trying to spell in a conference call to a disinterested manager.